Re: award of the year goes to greedy gammon

[admin]

you played "hundreds" of games and still losing everytime? hahahaha you must be the worst backgammon player in the world.
I suggest you turn on " gnubg analysis" and review your games for errors so you can learn how to play better.

[admin]

its whoever decided to ,make it nearly impossible to beat. rig the system perhaps its cool i find it funny. that stupid fucking laugh is obnoxious tho

How is it impossible to beat? It gives the option "enhanced dice" which is explained here
viewtopic.php?t=264

If you can't win almost every game with that turned on, it is hopeless..

[billyjo]

Just discovered Greedy Gammon and the "enhanced dice". Greatest thing I've ever seen. Because it proves that online dice can be rigged to an amazing level. (something long suspected by many .. but often denied)

It doesn't matter because not playing for money. I play gnubg in tutorial mode to learn more about the game. But still, I remember players saying it was rigged back in the day when money play was big online .. and all the denials that the software could rig the game. I have played around with the enhanced dice in GG, amazing how well it works. As you say, you can't lose when you're under 1750 and the enhanced dice are on. And really, if you didn't know the dice were rigged, you couldn't prove it.

Thanks for doing this .. you're providing a great service to online backgammon players everywhere ..

[admin]

Just discovered Greedy Gammon and the "enhanced dice". Greatest thing I've ever seen. Because it proves that online dice can be rigged to an amazing level. (something long suspected by many .. but often denied)

It doesn't matter because not playing for money. I play gnubg in tutorial mode to learn more about the game. But still, I remember players saying it was rigged back in the day when money play was big online .. and all the denials that the software could rig the game. I have played around with the enhanced dice in GG, amazing how well it works. As you say, you can't lose when you're under 1750 and the enhanced dice are on. And really, if you didn't know the dice were rigged, you couldn't prove it.

Thanks for doing this .. you're providing a great service to online backgammon players everywhere ..

Hi billyjo,

You mentioned the enhanced dice feature works well. Thank you! but let us give credit where it is due. GreedyGammon was able to implement this feature only because had access to the gnubg API which has a luck factor analysis code that gives an accurate estimate luck value for any roll on the current board position. GreedyGammon with 'enhanced dice' turned on will calculate the game winning chance (another gnubg API call) and if the player is losing, it will switch to the enhanced dice routine which simply rolls the dice 3 times and picks the luckiest roll. This gives the player a huge advantage while maintaining the illusion of random dice. HOwever the gnubg analysis of a completed match will reveal the luck factor value for the player is abnormally high

To be honest, I did enjoy this setting but it only takes about 2-3 days to go from 1500 to 1750. I have been playing backgammon long enough to go toe to toe with the bot and spank it without any help from cheating dice.

cheers,

[billyjo]

Thanks for the explanation. The enhanced luck is simpler than I thought. With enhanced dice turned on I am actually rolling 3 times and picking the best roll out of the 3. It's all invisible to the eye, of course. Hidden in the program. My odds of getting the roll I need are triple the odds on my opponent. Ergo, I win .. even if I make poor move choices. The Gnu API, which makes good choices, picks the best dice for me.

Since it is invisible, and easy to do. I imagine that something like this has been going on in online backgammon for a long time. Not only in backgammon but in other types of online gambling. My observance of human nature has shown me that if someone can cheat and not worry about getting caught .. they will. I mean, I would .. if it was impossible to detect and easy to do. Too much temptation ..

You're providing a great service here, by showing online players how it works. I thank you for it. And for the explanation of how it's done ..

[admin]

if you didn't know the dice were rigged, you couldn't prove it.

yes, u could prove it with luck analysis. It will show you have abnormally high luck rate for every game.

There is no denial that cheating can happen with online games especially if there is money involved.
The common cheating by players is with bot assisted play.
The server owner could also rig the dice such that player churn is increased to maximize their rake profits.

But claims of cheating are not restricted to online money games.
I have received countless accusations that GreedyGammon cheats with the dice.
It is the easy explanation for losing, by weak players who refuse to believe they are losers because they make mistakes.

Enhanced dice feature is for beginners who may lose interest if they never win.
I didn't realize this was an issue until some players complained about the losing streaks.
For myself, when I started playing the AI programs, getting crushed over and over by the software is what got me hooked.
Not everyone has the same tenacity and motivation to fight back when confronted by a stronger opponent.
For those who need a boost, we give them enhanced dice.
Maybe some day when they improve their skill, they can be strong enough to win some games without the extra help.

So for those who say GreedyGammon cheats, I say YES IT DOES!

IN YOUR FAVOR

[billyjo]

As a player .. I don't focus on luck. Unless as you say, the luck ratios are extremely one sided, which suggests (but still does not prove) foul play. I have seen those conversations on line .. the comeback is always .. Prove it. You can quote luck ratio all you want .. that still doesn't prove cheating. What I like about your program is that you are open and aboveboard about what is going on. The enhanced dice option.

Since you brought up skill, my focus is on error rate. GNU analysis shows that as well. If I make no errors, and lose .. then the other player (be it bot or human) was luckier than I.

Conversely, if I make errors and still win .. I was luckier than the other player. Of course, if I make errors and lose .. that's on me.

As far as everywhere else, you'll never convince me that cheating is not going on in online BG and other gaming. It's too easy to do (as you have shown), too hard to prove, and humans are always looking for a way to cheat when money is on the line. Bot assisted play? A way to reduce your error rate.

[billyjo]

After spending some time with your interface during the pandemic. I have concluded that you are full of it, Mr. Greedy. Your interface does cheat for the player until 1750, but after that, it cheats against you. It's a free service so who cares. We've got Gnu and other interfaces to play. But you aren't fooling anybody. I do appreciate the explanation as to the cheating mechanism. Don't appreciate the misrepresentation of your interface ...

[admin]

After spending some time with your interface during the pandemic. I have concluded that you are full of it, Mr. Greedy. Your interface does cheat for the player until 1750, but after that, it cheats against you. It's a free service so who cares. We've got Gnu and other interfaces to play. But you aren't fooling anybody. I do appreciate the explanation as to the cheating mechanism. Don't appreciate the misrepresentation of your interface ...

The cutoff rating has actually been changed to 1650 . So if you have achieved 1750 u are doing pretty good. But i don't believe you play at 1750 level based on your comments i would guess you are a 1500-1600 player at best, More likely 1450 if playing with real random dice.

There is a post around here somewhere titled "losing streaks" it is in the position analysis section i believe.
Here it is viewtopic.php?f=31&t=348
Even with some losing streaks of up to 11 matches in a row, it shows it is possible to climb to 1800+ rating

cheers!